Trope Talk: Fates Worse Than Death

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Overly Sarcastic Productions

21 kun oldin

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Today let's talk about everyone's favorite Stock Nightmare Fuel trope - and no, I wasn't expecting to use so many DCAU examples either! You know, for a colorful kid's cartoon, those bad guys sure end up in their own personal hells a lot.
This extremely cheerful topic was requested by patron Glen Taylor! Thanks, I think.
"Scheming Weasel" Kevin MacLeod (
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Gormathius Nightstrider
Gormathius Nightstrider 46 daqiqa oldin
So I started watching JoJo on and off a while ago to find out what all the fuss is about, and I think the ultimate fate of Kars is a pretty good example of what !!KID FRIENDLY!! generally means.
Toprem Soat oldin
13:05 - What DCAU Show/movie is this?
David Martin
David Martin 3 soat oldin
To be honest Wolverine is so old and his powers of regeneration so op that at some point one can arguer he has lived all of the worse that death fate backstories.
David Martin
David Martin 3 soat oldin
That completly.....and utterly acurate representationnof the internet😂😂😂
Just Some Jersey Devil With Internet Access
Just Some Jersey Devil With Internet Access 6 soat oldin
In my opinion, there is no fate worse than death, for death is *_final._* it CANNOT. Be undone, and if it can, that's not death. Any other fate can be recovered from, but not Death. Madness and even total psyche shattering can be healed. It just takes an absurd amount of time and outside effort. Death, however, is final.
Gordon's peronal channel
Gordon's peronal channel 10 soat oldin
"An eternity of suffering awaits you!" I chuckled a little there.
ignaeon 18 soat oldin
I still would love to see Red play Nier/drakengard someday. it say a lot that nearly every game in the franchise ends with an apocalypse, yet there's still a franchise and recurring characters.
Steven o
Steven o Kun oldin
"You are not going to kill your characters" ...half the characters of game of thrones
Steven o
Steven o Kun oldin
The song One by metallica describes one of the worst body horror fates. Can't see hear speak move feel covered in burns no limbs fed through a tube and hooked to machines to live unable to die.
Jakob Holgersson
Jakob Holgersson Kun oldin
I'd like to see a trope talk of subverting expectations. Of how film creators fail and succeed at subverting the expectations of the audience.
BunnyChipper Pink
BunnyChipper Pink Kun oldin
I just don't see how ANYTHING can be worse than eternity. Not even insanity will save you. Infinite time loops are at the absolute top for me.
MySerpentine Kun oldin
Eternal waking . . .
Lord Primus
Lord Primus Kun oldin
immortality is a fate worse than death change my mind
Blackchibisan Kun oldin
Red: when the audience won’t believe you will kill the hero you have to go for a fate worse than death Me, as a writer: not only will I kill the hero in a way you believe thematically but I will then bring them back making clear that death is no longer on the table for him as a foil for the rest of the cast only to have the hero get kidnapped by the big bad who uses his inability to die against him and turn that fate worse than death into a brand new character arc for the hero Also me: “I call it recycling”
T Pe
T Pe Kun oldin
Here is one other avenue for creativity for fates worse than death: using fates worse than death to illustrate character. For example, tailoring a fate worse than death to the specific character experiencing it (or the character inflicting it) is a potentially interesting avenue for character development. For example, maybe a character’s punishment is being forced to be constantly with a character he or she absolutely despises (which other characters wouldn’t consider such a bad thing). Even better, the character’s choices could help cause the character worse than death. For example, in Sartre’s No Exit, the characters’ choices actively turn that space into a living hell. If they acted differently, they could get themselves out of it at any time, but they don’t. You’re right that many of standard fates worse than death are often blaze and interchangeable. I wonder if part of the reason for their uncreativity has to do with their universality: for example, pretty much any character would experience eternal body torture as a bad thing (maybe except for an extremely masochistic character or something). Tailoring fates worse than death to specific characters could allow for much greater creativity.
Keks Janik
Keks Janik Kun oldin
marri pattricks
marri pattricks 2 kun oldin
“body horror” *traumatic flashbacks to human centipede movie*
Marle Simms
Marle Simms 2 kun oldin
I know you don't really take requests, but it occurred to me today that there's a really conspicuous and fun trope in animation that you haven't ever talked about, and I've love to hear your take on it, and that is: transformation sequences (e.g. Sailor Moon, She-Ra)
Fox L
Fox L 2 kun oldin
if u haven’t already, i would love to see a video of “the nobody” character trope. Like Hutch from “Nobody” or Rango from “Rango
CIC 2 kun oldin
I came here looking for JoJo comments, I was not disappointed
Prince Phantom
Prince Phantom 2 kun oldin
One of my favorite examples of this trope is Porky at the end of Mother 3. He's immortal, but could be killed by injuries, so he seals himself inside the absolutely safe capsule. It's impossible to harm, both from the outside and inside. He's just stuck there, sitting completely immobile, for eternity. The ultimate solitary confinement.
Phoebe Darker
Phoebe Darker 2 kun oldin
Sweeney Todd.
Heliverus Calion
Heliverus Calion 2 kun oldin
also johnny got his gun, that's pretty unpleasant
Heliverus Calion
Heliverus Calion 2 kun oldin
don't look up daemonculaba
Thomas Turner
Thomas Turner 3 kun oldin
One example I'm drawn to with Fates Worse Than Death is Dishonored. Not really in what the dude goes through, but how it ties to morality (note: I will be talking about the first targets in both Dishonored games): In every mission bar the third mission in the first game, you have the choice of killing the target or disposing them via an external method. Kill Thaddeus Campbell, Ramsey, Pendleton Brothers, Kirin Jindosh, or remove them in a non-lethal way. For Low Chaos, you need to spare all of them, however what you do to the groups of people are highly ambiguous. Thaddeus Campbell can be spared if you manage to exile him from the Overseers, however you find him later in the game as a weeper (essentially a zombie). Ramsey can be killed, or he can be locked in the safe room until you recover the throne. The Pendletons could be killed, but you could also send them off to the bottle street gang, get their tongues removed and force them to work in their own mines. Special mention to Kirin Jindosh in the second game. He is the smartest mind of his generation, so your choice of killing the bastard, or forcing him into an electric chair and essentially lobotomise him, making him borderline childish seems like the worse option. Literally, one of his quotes after the event is "Please. Kill me...". He's a fucking awful person, but even that is too far for me thanks.
the happy turtle
the happy turtle 3 kun oldin
the author cant afford to kill main characters! iraki: major character death! 50 cents apeice!
2shades of gray
2shades of gray 3 kun oldin
Trope talk:last stands
Lucifer 3 kun oldin
I really enjoy your straight forward and informational style. Like you keep an aesthetic and high quality but also get the information across clearly and concisely. Love your vids! Keep up the good work!
Arin 3 kun oldin
Example batmans backstory or spiderman,batman,ironman won't kill you but put you in the hospital for years
Jordan Davenport
Jordan Davenport 3 kun oldin
Kipo and the Age of the Wonderbeasts handles fates worse than death the absolute best. I view it as respecting the audience enough to tell a good story, even if on paper is is just a kids show. They really go the extra mile, having pride in their work, and that will make it timeless.
The Final Crusader
The Final Crusader 3 kun oldin
*korega requiem da*
Sakuyamon 3 kun oldin
Fate worse than death is very common in Doctor Who... Very common for both heroes and enemies... One specific episode that really dug into me (not counting the gasmask children) was an episode where the main antagonist wasnt just transpformed from human into a disgusting looking alien, but he lost his individuality as well. That particular alien race were peaceful but operated under a hive mind. So while he could still live a nice life that was peaceful, he lost himself, his autonomy and freedom. Of course, being turned into a cyberman would be way worse, but there is something much more disturbing in the way he transformed on screen and just tore his own face off...cybermen usually transform off screen.
YuriOfBlades 3 kun oldin
I think one series who nails the fate worse than death is Jojo although In a different sense as these happen to the antagonists with Diavolo and Kars being the main example of those fates Edit: spelling
Zephyr Dagonheart
Zephyr Dagonheart 3 kun oldin
Using my favorite game as a punching bag here don't mind me. ✋😃 Let's talk about Soul Calibur 6 and the character Curtis(spoilers for Grøh and Nightmare's stories and Libra of Soul). So, Curtis is Grøh's childhood friend and technically goes through one HELL of a fate worse than death(that, funnily enough, actually involved him dying). First, Azwel turns him Malfested using a shard of Soul Edge. Second, Grøh has to kill Curtis in self defense since he attacks Grøh, you heard me right, KILL HIM. Third, during Libra of Soul, the Conduit comes across an Astral Fissure that has CURTIS AS IT'S BERSERKER(Libra sorta implies that where you find that Fissure is where he died, which was an underground temple that ended up collapsing after Curtis died). Lastly, Curtis is revived as a Malfested and is forced into servitude of Nightmare. To die and be reborn as not only the thing you've sworn to kill but also serve the being that directly caused the creation of that thing is what I personally consider a fate worse than death. There's also the whole concept of Guardians in Destiny(the dying and then being resurrected only to die repeatedly until someone kills your Ghost then you)is pretty in line with this too-
Baron Sharpe
Baron Sharpe 4 kun oldin
My favorite "Fate worse than death" is what I like to call "horrific deadpool" I have a character in a Grimdark Fantasy setting who was injected with lovecraftian god blood by evil doctors. He is made practically immortal as he can revive from having his entire body cut in half however the healing process is even more painful than the pain of the injury. The entire story is him trying to find a way to cure himself.
kolchak01 4 kun oldin
"I have no mouth but I must scream" has an amazing fate worth than death for the Narrator
Lee 4 kun oldin
I still hold that (Dr. Who season 10? spoilers) Bill turning into a Cyberman was an amazing example of "fate worse than death" and body horror in modern media
Sternheim 4 kun oldin
You should do a video on the twin characters trope. Twins in media are almost always one dimensional. They are either played out as the comic duo, the creepy ones, or polar opposites if they are given some sort of personalities. Twins are commonly depicted as finishing each other's sentences or moving/talking in unison. Some act as friend group filler, almost always sharing the same personality and having no character arks.
Vlad Prus
Vlad Prus 18 soat oldin
One of my favourites are maids Hisui and Kohkau from Visual Novel Tsukihme. While initially they are played as polar opposites (Hisui shy, stiff and with little emotion, while Kohaku is similng and friendly), they are pretty much two different characters. The intial "opposites" also is only surface-level, they are both explored and they are different, but in different ways. Also, they both have separate character arcs.
Micheal Novak
Micheal Novak 4 kun oldin
I'm a simple man, I see the Great Soft Jelly Thing and I click
Chantol de la Cruz
Chantol de la Cruz 4 kun oldin
Roaring Thunder115
Roaring Thunder115 4 kun oldin
Imagine being in carbonite for millennia, but being able to think and see. That’s what I describe as a fate worse than death. That would MESS you up mentally.
Roaring Thunder115
Roaring Thunder115 4 kun oldin
Yep. Just as I thought. The jojo fans are here.
I need no channel youtube!
I need no channel youtube! 4 kun oldin
Human minds are not very adept at understanding either finality, or actual limitless things. The reason fates worse than death are a common occurance in fiction, is because deaths that mirror real death are very rare in fiction. Death is a short sit on the not currently present bench. Oblivion doesnt exist in stories.
Maya Bailes
Maya Bailes 4 kun oldin
"The hero actually dying is pretty unlikely." Camila Cuevas: *Maniacal laughter.*
Doodle Bot
Doodle Bot 4 kun oldin
I think one of my favorite fates worse than death comes from the season 2 villain of Wakfu, Qilby is an immortal being of the reincarnates-and-is-then-reborn variety. He is one of six people of his race who can do that, every other member of their race stays dead when they die. But Qilby has something special about him, he was given a perfect memory. He remembers all of his past lives, none of the other 5 who can be reborn have that. So he went several millennia watching his race flourish and when they reached their peak and didn’t grow any further he became bored being unable to experience anything new and incited a war that had their race flee to space, he could have gone to space alone probably, but he also has never wanted to be alone, he desires new experiences and companionship. He was punished for his crimes by being tossed into an endless void where time doesn’t move and he is all alone. It’s his literal worst nightmare.
Nico Krasnow
Nico Krasnow 4 kun oldin
A Fate worse than Death...Vader in Revenge of the Sith
Rettheran 4 kun oldin
FWTD really inspires two main reactions If you don't think about it: Kid friendly If you do think about it and its implications: It could trivialize every single horrific crime in human history so far by comparison.
Pow Egger
Pow Egger 5 kun oldin
you know what we need a story where the side charcters are aware their in a story and are trying to get a good ending but the MC is an idiot and super fail but thinks he's victorious
The HZ
The HZ 5 kun oldin
Low key redo of a healer....
danielsjohnson 5 kun oldin
"did you learn nothing from Game of Thrones?" lol
Jelly Jeffrey
Jelly Jeffrey 5 kun oldin
The current mainline run of Thor comics has a villain right now that perfectly fits this concept. Seems to work to interesting effect there at least for shaping the personality and motives of the villain.
Alex Orr
Alex Orr 5 kun oldin
7:16 Re:Zero has entered the chat
Fräulein Zuckerguss
Fräulein Zuckerguss 5 kun oldin
8:00 "Edward..."
stiffy kitsune
stiffy kitsune 5 kun oldin
I actually find that fun red that they some kid friendly death of fall into hell fire or cliff would make it’s friendly to kids. Thou I was pretty sure back in the day that I knew the bad just died
Kaitlyn Haskins
Kaitlyn Haskins 5 kun oldin
oh so Overhaul?
BigKlingy 5 kun oldin
One interesting aspect to the fate worse than death is sometimes the heroes will need to use it as a work-around if a villain WANTS to die. Maybe the villain wants the hero to kill them so they'll "become just like them". Maybe one of the hero's friends is the villain's next backup body. There's also the case of death-seeker villains, where the act of simply not killing them sometimes qualifies as a fate worse than death. (This one's pretty common in JRPGs)
Bep Kororoti
Bep Kororoti 6 kun oldin
Haha, "Anything but kittens" killed me
TheWritingReference 6 kun oldin
I'm not a sadist. On an unrelated note, let me return to my WIP where a couple of characters are learning to deal with fates worse than death.
Jewel The Kitty
Jewel The Kitty 6 kun oldin
I cannot BELIEVE Red got through this entire video without mentioning Avatar: The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra ONCE! There’s so many “fates worse than death” in those shows! I honestly don’t know whether to be proud or sad
Krzysiek Bazyl
Krzysiek Bazyl 6 kun oldin
Servitors be like: been there, done that, they fuck of with the t-shirt
Benjamin Fricke
Benjamin Fricke 6 kun oldin
Um, Little Nightmares 2 spoilers I guess, but... ...It is (seemingly) an excellent example of the “Time Loop” variant of this trope.
Mostafa Hadhoud
Mostafa Hadhoud 6 kun oldin
yeah like higurashi
Mr. Rice
Mr. Rice 6 kun oldin
2:04 "If you kill off the hero, what are you going to do the next season? Try and sell us on some other protagonist?" JoJo: Yes. Yes I am.
Craytherlaygaming 6 kun oldin
Yeah this technically was done in NT9 for Kamachi Kazuma's Toaru franchise, however the issue is he doesn't show the effects on the Main character. A main character who's universe was torn apart and rebuilt countless times by a literal god, just to try and break him through every form of death and suffering. And we never see him show Trauma or PTSD, sure you could explain it as due to the association and the scale it's hard to trigger but you'd at least see him wake up at night in a cold sweat. Worried that even now the world he's in is false and the one he though had changed was actually playing the long con again.
Depressed Dice
Depressed Dice 6 kun oldin
Time out torture dimension is my favorite phrase now
Lonely Bones
Lonely Bones 6 kun oldin
Blob human = Made in Abyss victims to me
Shawn Ravenfire
Shawn Ravenfire 6 kun oldin
Here's an idea for a topic: Shapeshifters and/or impostors, especially when one of the characters has to make the "which one is the real you, and which one do I shoot" decision.
NeoGamer9375 6 kun oldin
Gibbering Mouther... people who play D&D will know EXACTLY what I’m talking about...
NBR 6 kun oldin
Rika Furude: "OH NEPTUNE"
Chris Ray
Chris Ray 7 kun oldin
I remember watching the first King's man where the stake was "everyone in the world will kill each other" and it felt intense to me because "Holy crap! I live on the world!" then the sequel's stakes were "All recreational drug takers would die" and since I and most of my close family didn't do that, I couldn't help but care less since I knew win or loss, I was probably gonna be physically fine.
Randy Random
Randy Random 7 kun oldin
My favorite rendition of "Psychological horror" is the Alien Comic of Dr. Church. And if you are interested in it, TRIGGER WARNING
Ryan M.
Ryan M. 7 kun oldin
"There are fates worse than death!" - Raiden, before reducing a certain kharacter to a still-living head, Mortal Kombat 11 "I mean, I was going to suggest being trapped in R. Kelly's basement. But yes, decapitation is also bad." - Vman, Mortal Kombat 11 - Story Mode on Very Hard (Full)
Onny Farizyandi
Onny Farizyandi 7 kun oldin
Ah yes. Burning hometown village is a cause of PTSD. Post Traumatic Sephiroth Disorder.
Groundhog 42
Groundhog 42 7 kun oldin
11:32 Is that a Jojo reference?
Zacharie Guillerey
Zacharie Guillerey 7 kun oldin
Which movie was it with Depardieu ?
Akshit Gaur
Akshit Gaur 8 kun oldin
Just as I read "Fates Worse Than Death" I thought of Hermione saying, "We will die or worse get expelled."
Michael awesome
Michael awesome 8 kun oldin
If you want a great example of the right of that scale, look up "SCP Red Reality"... You were warned.
D Valentino
D Valentino 8 kun oldin
Redo of healer did nothing wrong.
Alta 8 kun oldin
Can you do a vid on Leaders? Like, characters who become leaders or were leaders to begin with and just got thrown a situation more difficult than they’d ever faced idk.
Commander Phoenix
Commander Phoenix 8 kun oldin
Or: Being turned into a banana forced to rotate against your will.
Mielus 8 kun oldin
*Guts has entered the chat* Heard ya'll were talkin about suffering.
Schoen Perkins
Schoen Perkins 9 kun oldin
As far as Tropes go, this one feels like it should be split into two different categories, with the original “Fate worse than death” and “I can’t believe its not death, the none dairy substitute for mortality”
Tony Skeptical
Tony Skeptical 9 kun oldin
_"Eventually, he stopped thinking"_
In process to delete
In process to delete 9 kun oldin
You know that TV series called Lost, yeah the weird one. Stuck on island, things are weird, I’d love if you talked about it, because it felt like a fever dream. I’m not even sure the tv show is even real, it seriously is strange
Shojeh Liu
Shojeh Liu 9 kun oldin
Immediately thinks of one of the best stories I've ever read: Worm, where everything that "isn't supposed to happen" totally can.
TheChocolateLeaf 9 kun oldin
Just had a thought that “cursed royalty” would be a really cool trope to talk about
Kyler 9 kun oldin
I love yall but very drubk and need more chioll like blue
Zoe Guy
Zoe Guy 9 kun oldin
Red: talks about fates worse than death Jojo villains: are we a joke to you
Kolbelastof9 9 kun oldin
40k Servitor - the removal of cognitive functions etc
Rekusa Axelrod
Rekusa Axelrod 9 kun oldin
All I can think of is the smiling victims of the joker from the animated series
Sjur Nilsen
Sjur Nilsen 10 kun oldin
My favorite worse than death scenario is what is described in SCP 2718, it basically tells that after death you are still conscious and can feel pain, even parts of you that are not connected to you you can feel, just pain and suffering for the rest of eternity
Masked man
Masked man 10 kun oldin
anybody wanna kill off their main character in the 4th chapter
Marina Aguas
Marina Aguas 10 kun oldin
Reiner Braun be like
A Cup of Tea
A Cup of Tea 10 kun oldin
Shoutout to the Magnus Archives for doing all of these things! This is fine everything is fine 👍
Maxim Gun
Maxim Gun 10 kun oldin
Ah yes, the fate worse than death....also known as having a one way trip to Commorragh
Brian Wood
Brian Wood 10 kun oldin
I've recently encountered a twist on the whole "fate worse than death" thing in a Luke Correia video. Comic Setting: a grocery store produce aisle Woman: "Is this hell?" Man:"In what sense?" Woman:"The present moment is both eternal and painful." Man:"In hell, there is relief in utter helplessness. Here, our actions have consequences for both ourselves and others." Woman:"Truly, it is worse." I don't want to bother looking up the original but just look for "truly, it is worse" if you want to be pointed to the video
Oh no it’s a fuzzy
Oh no it’s a fuzzy 10 kun oldin
To me immortality is a pretty bad fate. Like have you ever thought that every one you meet will be eventually die? Also I Dont want to deal with Karen’s forever
Allaion 10 kun oldin
I genuinely wonder which fictional universe truly has the worst "fate worse than death". Personally, my money is on Warhammer 40k where both the Daemonculaba and the Dark Eldar's Haemonculi exist.
Josh Vega
Josh Vega 10 kun oldin
4:06 time to go to the shadow realm jimbo
Lauraceae 10 kun oldin
As soon as I saw the title of the video I was going to mention “I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.” I am both so happy and so so concerned that Red said it! I would recommend it to anyone reading this as it’s a pretty incredible short story, but I can’t do that in good conscious :P
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